In a recent episode of the “CAIR on Air” podcast titled “How Muslims & Other Minority Groups Became Political Targets in America w/ Veronica Laizure”, the Hamas-linked Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) National Deputy Director Edward Ahmed Mitchell sat down with Veronica Laizure, Executive Director of CAIR Oklahoma.
The conversation reveals a clear agenda: Oklahoma is in CAIR’s sights. The speakers lay out plans to reshape the state through legal action, education campaigns, and political organizing. They aim to expand Muslim political influence, enforce “social justice” norms aligned with their ideology, and reduce traditional conservative power in one of America’s reddest states.
CAIR’s Coalition Strategy: Straight from the Muslim Brotherhood’s ‘The Project’
In an X post advertising the podcast, CAIR states in part:
“From forming partnerships between groups with diverging ideolgies [sic] and navigating tensions among diverse coalitions, this conversation provides an inside look at the ups and downs of coalition building amid the fight against fascism.”
This concept is exactly what was prescribed by “The Project“, the 1982 subversive Muslim Brotherhood blueprint to turn America into an Islamic state by advising Islamic groups to form temporary, tactical partnerships with ideologically opposed movements, including secular nationalists and left-wing coalitions, on shared battlegrounds like the fight against fascism (or colonialism/Zionism), without ever forming genuine alliances, extending trust, or ceding leadership.
The Project explicitly instructs: accept limited cooperation “without however having to form alliances,” maintain only “limited contacts between certain leaders on a case by case basis,” give them “no allegiance,” and ensure “the Islamic movement must be the origin of the initiatives and orientations taken.”
In other words, CAIR’s public embrace of coalition-building with divergent groups follows the doctrine: use non-Islamic partners as useful instruments to advance the cause, while preserving full strategic independence and ultimate control.
Background on the Speakers
Attorney Edward Ahmed Mitchell serves as CAIR’s National Deputy Director. He previously led CAIR-Georgia and has deep ties to Muslim advocacy networks. Mitchell was the contact listed on CAIR’s October 7, 2023, press release issued through the U.S. Council of Muslim Organizations (USCMO).
As reported at RAIR:
On October 7, 2023, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad fighters, joined by UNRWA employees who helped kidnap civilians and hold hostages in their homes and agency facilities, surged across the Gaza border in a coordinated assault they named “Al-Aqsa Flood”.
They raped women at the Nova music festival and in kibbutz bedrooms, tortured families by burning them alive in safe rooms, mutilated bodies, and executed over 1,200 innocent civilians – including infants, children, and elderly Holocaust survivors – while seizing 251 hostages dragged back into Gaza.
In Gaza and throughout the Palestinian Authority-controlled West Bank, regular citizens poured into the streets in vast celebration: handing out sweets, firing guns into the air, chanting in support of the massacre, and cheering as hostages and corpses were paraded through Rafah, Nablus, Jenin, and Bethlehem.
The CAIR press release on October 7, 2023, with Edward Ahmed Mitchell named as a contact, expressed support for “Palestine” immediately after the attack on Israel, condemning Israel while framing the violence as a response to “occupation” and calling for pressure on the Israeli government and a reevaluation of U.S. policy.
One year after October 7, 2023, CAIR Oklahoma joined forces with militant left-wing groups such as the Oklahoma City chapter of America’s largest Marxist organization, the Democratic Socialists of America to trash Israel.
Veronica Laizure, an attorney, was the other podcast speaker. She currently serves as Executive Director of CAIR Oklahoma. According to her CAIR bio, she “educated thousands of Oklahoma Muslims on how to secure their own civil rights, establishing CAIR Oklahoma as a leader in the social justice movement in Oklahoma.”
In the podcast, Laizure discusses how lawfare has been used in the past against Oklahoma (in particular, how CAIR and the ACLU defeated the 2010 anti-Sharia law in federal court after it passed with 70 percent voter support) and how CAIR intends to build a proactive “civil rights” department that files complaints responds to alleged discrimination in workplaces and schools.
As President of the Board of Directors for the ACLU of Oklahoma, Laizure is in a prime position to make good on her lawfare threats. She also sits on the board of the Oklahoma Access to Justice Foundation and the Asian Task Force on Domestic and Sexual Violence, and activated the legal observer program through the Oklahoma Chapter of the radical National Lawyers Guild, which was originally organized with in 1936 as a legal action front operated by the Communist Party USA. Laizure joined CAIR Oklahoma as staff attorney in 2014 and rose to Executive Director.
These two voices outline a strategy that treats Oklahoma as fertile ground for transformation.
Derisive View of Oklahoma as Backward and Needing ‘Revolution’
The speakers do not hide their low opinion of America or of Oklahoma. Laizure describes the state as deeply red, with Muslims making up “less than like half a percentage point of the state population.” She notes that many Oklahomans “have never met a Muslim” and get their views of Islam “from what they see on the TV or what they hear from the pastor at their church up the road which is terrifying.”
She points to past events as proof of the state’s flaws. Laizure highlights the 2010 anti-Sharia ballot measure that “passed…with you know 70% of Oklahoma voters agreeing that Sharia was a bad and dangerous thing without really understanding what Sharia law is or means.” She calls out former state representative John Bennett as someone who “was constantly talking about Muslims and about CAIR” and “loved to get on the front page to say bad things about Islam and Muslims.”
Even Oklahoma’s history of tragedy becomes ammunition. Laizure discusses the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and the 1921 Tulsa Riots, which she says was “deliberately hidden” and “obfuscated from our education.” She frames these events as evidence that “hate is grown right here in our heartland” and that “blaming other people isn’t going to work.”
It is not the first time Laizure referenced the 30-year-old Oklahoma City bombing to attack the state. Last year, she wrote an OpEd targeting Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond for warning about the thousands of unvetted Afghans in Oklahoma brought in by the Biden Administration. In particular, he referenced Afghanistan native Nasir Ahmad Tawhedi, who was thwarted by the FBI in his attempt to commit a terror attack on Election Day in 2024. “Are we to condemn every person who matches the description of the terrorist and traitor Timothy McVeigh?” Laizure asked. “Or do we understand that the whole are not represented by the reprehensible few, and that the actions of a limited group of radicals aren’t characteristic of an entire population?”
At the time, Laizure warned that Afghan nationals may become targets. “Keep an eye out for bullying against your child in school, be aware of your rights and be able to express them, and know that even though hate rears its head in times like this, there is legal support out there to help you navigate it, should that be necessary,” she said on local public radio.
In this week’s podcast, Laizure portrays the state as stuck in the past, needing an “awakening” where Oklahomans realize “the way things have been is not good enough for us. The status quo is not good enough.” She celebrates what she calls “this new quiet revolution, this Oklahoma style revolution that we the people have decided that the way things have gone, it’s gone on long enough. It ain’t working. We’re going to have to do something better.”
The host, Mitchell, echoes this by comparing current events to Vietnam-era protests and suggesting Oklahoma and the country suffer from repeated cycles of division that demand intervention. There is no praise for Oklahoma’s conservative values, strong Christian heritage, or resistance to federal overreach. Instead, the state appears as a problem to be fixed.
The speakers discuss a three prong approach to fundamentally transforming Oklahoma:
Step One: Expand Muslim Political Influence Through Organizing and Coalitions
CAIR’s first goal is to grow Muslim political power in Oklahoma. Laizure explains how she built CAIR Oklahoma’s civil rights department to move beyond reacting to incidents. “We wanted to build a civil rights department that would help equip people to prevent these discrimination complaints from happening in the first place.” This includes “know your rights webinars and seminars and printed materials” aimed at “Oklahoma Muslims.”
She stresses outreach that builds influence: “reaching out to the non-Muslim community. HR professionals… Teachers and educators have always been incredibly friendly to the CAIR resources.” The aim is to embed CAIR’s presence in schools, workplaces, and government.
Laizure pushes for broader coalitions to amplify Muslim voices. She praises alliances with the LGBTQ community, noting they “have never stopped rallying for Palestine” and wore “kaffiyehs at Pride.” She also highlights ties to indigenous communities, with “drum circles led by indigenous elders” at rallies. “When LGBTQ folks and the Muslim community understand the people who hate them also hate us… then we are in community together.”
This cross-group organizing serves to increase Muslim visibility and leverage. Laizure says the Muslim community in Oklahoma is “founded on resilience” and “will not be giving up, will not be going anywhere.” The strategy is to turn a tiny minority into a force that shapes policy through sustained activism and alliances that pressure conservative institutions.
Step Two: Enforce ‘Social Justice’ Norms Via Education and Redefinition of Community
The second pillar is enforcing a specific vision of social justice. Laizure wants to redefine what “community” and even “family” mean in Oklahoma. “We are building and redefining family. We don’t have to look the same, believe the same, worship the same.”
She rejects traditional boundaries: “Community does cross political boundaries… You don’t have to agree on everything.” The focus shifts to opposing “hate crimes… genocide… discrimination in the workplace” on CAIR’s terms. This includes solidarity with Gaza, where she says the world must heal a “deep existential wound” by building communities “so that this never happens again.”
In keeping with CAIR’s obsession with making victims out of all Muslims, young and old, Laizure describes proactive programs to teach Muslims how to handle “discrimination in the workplace” or when “your child is being bullied at school.” At the same time, CAIR reaches non-Muslims to “educate” them on Muslim perspectives. The goal is to normalize CAIR’s framework so that traditional Oklahoma views on religion, family, and national identity become sidelined as intolerant.
Laizure criticizes “quid pro quo activism” and calls for “principled activism” based on consistency against injustice as defined by CAIR and their allies. In practice, this means using education and outreach to impose progressive social norms under the banner of civil rights, gradually eroding Oklahoma’s conservative cultural foundation.
Step Three: Reduce Traditional Conservative Power Through Legal and Political Pressure
The third element is direct pressure on conservative structures. She calls for ongoing resistance to “the right-wing target wheel,” where Muslims are currently “at the top.” Laizure warns against “focusing on these things that divide us instead of the things that unite us” while pushing her version of unity. This includes opposing “armed masked thugs grabbing people off the streets” (in reference to the enforcement of immigration laws) and alleged “violence against minority communities,” rhetoric aimed at law enforcement and immigration policies.
Mitchell and Laizure see national politics as toxic but local action as the solution. Laizure states: “It’s localized people who have something in common, which is I want to care for my neighbor.” In context, this means building networks that counter conservative policies through so-called mutual aid, protests, and legal challenges.
CAIR Oklahoma maintains government affairs departments for “lobbying efforts on issues related to Islam and Muslims in our state.” Combined with legal work and coalition-building, the intent is to tie up conservative initiatives in court, influence school curricula and workplace policies, and make traditional stances on issues like immigration, religious displays, or criticism of Islam politically costly.
Laizure admits the work is “fruitful ground” because “the need is great” in a red state. She and Mitchell present Oklahoma as ripe for this pressure campaign, where resilience against “the status quo” will lead to their preferred changes.
A Deliberate Campaign to Transform Oklahoma
Oklahoma faces a deliberate campaign. CAIR, through subversive figures like Mitchell and Laizure, has set its sights on the state. Their podcast reveals plans to expand Muslim political influence via organized coalitions, enforce social justice norms by redefining community and educating the public, and reduce traditional conservative power through relentless legal, educational, and political pressure.
They speak of Oklahoma’s conservative character with thinly veiled contempt, labeling its voters’ choices on Sharia, its pastors’ teachings, and its resistance to outside agendas as problems to overcome. Their vision replaces Oklahoma’s identity with a state where Muslim voices dominate, “social justice” dictates acceptable speech and policy, and conservative traditions yield to progressive demands.
Oklahomans should take this podcast seriously. CAIR does not come to strengthen the state’s existing fabric. It comes to rewrite it. The “quiet revolution” Laizure celebrates is already underway in courtrooms, classrooms, and coalition meetings. Ignoring it risks handing the state over to those who view its current form as something that “ain’t working” and must be replaced.
Watch the discussion here:
Entire Transcript:
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: Oklahoma has been the site of some really awful Islamophobia, most notably the anti-Sharia law. And when people realized blaming other people isn’t going to work, it created a wave of interfaith relationship building that has been the source of incredible strength for us.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: What’s your observation of the state of the country now compared to 5 or 10 years ago?
Veronica Laizure: We’ve seen this all before. The bad thing is it seems that we have not managed to learn from history yet, focusing on these things that divide us instead of the things that unite us. The good news, however, is that we have all done this before and we have made it through.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: What is your hope for the next few years?
Veronica Laizure: The last 20 years of American politics has changed the game of politics. I think what saves us is localized people who have something in common. If we had some moral consistency with the right and the left, the temperature might come down a bit. We are building and redefining family. We don’t have to look the same, believe the same, worship the same. But when someone comes in to attack, I am not going to sit by and let that happen.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: Alhamdulillah. Veronica Laizure, thank you so much for joining us. CAIR Oklahoma Executive Director, CAIR National Staff Attorney. It’s really a pleasure to hear your perspectives today. So, Veronica, you know, when I first joined CAIR back in 2016 and I walked into our national CAIR meeting, it looked like the United Nations. I saw white people, black people, Asian people, Hispanic people. I saw people who were visibly Muslim. I saw people who were visibly different faiths including Jewish CAIR leaders. People don’t realize that the diversity of CAIR and the diversity of perspectives that we have and the diversity of experiences that we have professionally. And so you’re really unique, I think, in terms of your leadership at CAIR, having been an executive director, a staff attorney, coming from outside the community, serving the community. You really wear a lot of hats and so I really want to give you a chance to share what led you into CAIR in the first place and then we’ll talk about this crazy world we’re living in and how you think this is all going to end up. But first, just tell us a bit about yourself and how you ended up joining CAIR in the first place.
Veronica Laizure: Sure. Yeah, thank you. All throughout my college and law school experience, I had always been interested in the relationships between people and systems of power. So in law school that looked like all of the con law classes, first amendment, international human rights. Really trying to explore how people interact with leadership and with the systems of power that govern our lives. And so when I graduated from law school and was admitted to practice and the staff attorney position opened up at CAIR, I looked at the job description and thought this is exactly what I’ve always wanted to do. It is to take a look at the way that the law, which is supposed to be neutral and objective and be protective of all of us as residents of the United States, how in what ways is that falling short? In what ways are Muslims in Oklahoma not being protected? And how do we prevent that? How do we protect those rights that we all hold so dearly. And so once I took on the role as staff attorney I began learning very quickly about the Muslim community and felt incredibly welcomed. I consider it sort of an adoptive community to myself as a non-religious person. And we realized that what Oklahoma Muslims needed was not only a staff attorney to respond to things after they happened. We wanted to build a civil rights department that would help equip people to prevent these discrimination complaints from happening in the first place. I wanted to be able to educate Oklahoma Muslims on what happens if you are experiencing discrimination in the workplace and you don’t happen to have a lawyer in your back pocket. What happens if your child is being bullied at school and you and the teachers don’t know how to address that in a respectful way for you and your culture and the way that you want to raise your children. And so we started building a civil rights department that was focused not only on reacting to things after they happened, but on proactive education. And that meant education for the Muslim community, of course, the know your rights webinars and seminars and printed materials, but it also meant reaching out to the non-Muslim community. HR professionals. We have an HR group in Oklahoma City that was incredibly welcoming to our resources. Teachers and educators have always been incredibly friendly to the CAIR resources.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: And this is all in Oklahoma, right?
Veronica Laizure: Yes.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: So I’ve been to Oklahoma. Many Americans have as well, but many have not. So just tell us a bit about what the environment is that you’re working in. Is it a receptive environment, a hostile environment for minorities, especially Muslims? What kind of environment did you walk into in terms of the state?
Veronica Laizure: Sure. And just giving you fair warning, you’ve asked me my favorite question of all, talking about the state that I love. Oklahoma is a fabulous place to be doing civil rights work for a couple of reasons. One is because the need is great. Oklahoma is still a deeply red state. Muslims are less than like half a percentage point of the state population and a relatively young population when it comes to Oklahoma history. So a lot of Oklahomans have never met a Muslim, are completely unfamiliar with Islam as a religion except for what they see on the TV or what they hear from the pastor at their church up the road, which is terrifying in some cases. Oklahoma has been the site of some really awful Islamophobia, most notably the anti-Sharia law that passed in 2010 with 70% of Oklahoma voters agreeing that Sharia was a bad and dangerous thing without really understanding what Sharia law is or means, and was defeated by CAIR Oklahoma in federal court. We’ve also had some very newsworthy examples of religious figures that have targeted Muslims from the pulpit and made national news for the hateful things that they’ve said. We’ve had politicians, former state representative John Bennett was, we joked for years that he was our biggest, he was constantly talking about Muslims and about CAIR, loved to get on the front page to say bad things about Islam and Muslims. So civil rights work in Oklahoma is fruitful ground. There’s a lot of growth that we can nurture there. But Oklahoma is also a really special place to do civil rights work because of Oklahoma’s history as the birthplace for so much civil rights. Tulsa being the site of the Tulsa Race Massacre and then that history having been hidden for decades, for generations. So many Oklahomans never heard about it. I even remember in high school it was like a footnote, a sidebar in a history textbook. And for Tulsans and Oklahomans broadly to realize not only did this history happen, this history was deliberately hidden from us. This was deliberately obfuscated from our education, from our children’s education. That is a symbol of something much more dangerous going on in our state. And so that movement has created a groundswell, a foundation for people who are saying the way things have been is not good enough for us. The status quo is not good enough. We have to improve. Oklahoma was also the site of the 1995 Murrah bombing, one of the worst domestic terror attacks in America’s history, which was initially blamed on Muslims. People really deeply remember the Pakistani men who were detained at the airport, held for hours without access to counsel, the way that families, Muslim families were targeted, the mosque was targeted. Our beloved Imam Imad Enchassi was a target of investigation. And then when it came out that the perpetrators of that attack were not Muslims, that they were American males, military veterans, when people in Oklahoma realized that hate is grown right here in our heartland and blaming other people for it isn’t going to work for us anymore, it created a wave of interfaith relationship building that has been the source of incredible strength for us. So Oklahoma is really a wonderful place to do civil rights work. It’s been incredibly rewarding to see this growth happen and to be a little part of what we like to think of as this new quiet revolution, this Oklahoma-style revolution that we the people have decided that the way things have gone, it’s gone on long enough. It ain’t working. We’re going to have to do something better.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: What’s interesting about that history is we talked about the Tulsa Race Massacre, the Oklahoma City bombing, we jumped all the way ahead to the Sharia amendment. Oklahoma’s seen a lot. You’ve seen a lot in the years you’ve been there. How does that stack up to what we’re looking at right now? You got ICE raids in various American cities. You got college kids being either beaten up by the police when they were protesting or now kicked out of school looking for new jobs. What’s your observation of the state of the country now or even Oklahoma now compared to 5 or 10 years ago, like the challenges that you’re dealing with?
Veronica Laizure: The good thing and the bad thing about it all is that we’ve seen this all before. None of this is new. The targeting of campus dissidents, that’s already happened. The armed masked thugs grabbing people off the streets, we’ve already seen that in America. The violence against minority communities, against religious minorities in particular, that’s already happened. And so the bad thing is that it seems that we in Oklahoma and in the country broadly have not managed to learn from history yet. We have not picked up on the dangers of focusing on these things that divide us instead of the things that unite us. We have not been able to coalesce around the common good. The good news, however, is that we have all done this before and we have made it through. Our communities are built on tremendous resilience. Especially the American Muslim community. From Muslims who came to the United States as enslaved people under horrific conditions and refused to be broken by that, to Muslims who are immigrants and the children of immigrants who came here with the quintessential American dream story, $20 in your pocket to start a legacy, to the refugees that we’ve welcomed in Oklahoma who fled Afghanistan after watching unspeakable things happen to their family and friends. This is a community that is founded on resilience, that has refused to give up, has refused to accept the status quo, and will not be giving up, will not be going anywhere. And so it is unfortunate that we continue to see this what I think of as the right-wing target wheel. Right now Muslims are at the top of the target wheel. We’re in every newspaper. Every pundit who wants to make a name for themselves, this Muslim Brotherhood that can’t keep our name out their mouth. Two years ago it was the caravan of Mexicans. It’s been LGBTQ folks, it’s immigrants, it’s reproductive care. There’s always a new target. And hopefully we will begin to learn that all of us who find ourselves on that target wheel, what we have in common is that we’re on that wheel together. And that wheel is not inevitable. We don’t have to be on that wheel. It doesn’t have to exist at all. It is a construction. It is a made-up thing that has worked for people for a very long time, but we don’t have to let it keep working anymore. So I think of it as history being cyclical. The bad thing is that these things have happened already and continue to happen. But if we are careful and smart and we learn from our history and we watch other communities and how they have responded to their time at the top of the terror wheel, we start to see patterns about what resistance looks like when it’s sustainable, when the growth of real community building actually is happening before our eyes and when those leaders are emerging and becoming established. We’re getting to learn from history both 50 years ago and 15 years ago and also yesterday at the same time.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: When we saw kids on campuses being beaten up by the police, attacked by pro-Israel counterprotesters, it reminds you of Vietnam, the stuff that we watch as kids or in history books, Kent State shooting, pro-war people attacking anti-war protesters. Even 1968 with Lyndon Johnson bowing out of the presidential race as vice president running and losing in large part because of Vietnam. It just seemed very eerie, some of the similarities of history. And now you have a president in office, some people make observations about some similarities to Richard Nixon. Anyway, that begs the question, where’s all this going? Because ultimately the Vietnam War came to an end at great human cost and we kept making the same mistake after that, Iraq War, apparently a new war with Iran. The civil rights movement won its major goals in terms of legislation that was passed. It didn’t solve poverty, it didn’t solve racism, but it made things better. So all that being said, we look at either the American Muslim community or Somali immigrants in Minneapolis, Latino immigrants all around the country, I’m just wondering where all this ends. Because even if in November you have an election that results in a change in Congress, you have a president next time around who’s a little more chill in terms of how they treat racial and religious minorities, then what happens when you have the next election? Is it just going to be like a ping-pong ball where every four years we’re dealing with this? And not to say that having a Democratic president makes things okay, because we were dealing with kids being beaten up on college campuses when Joe Biden was president. We’re fighting the federal government’s overreach when Democrats are president. So, what is your hope for the next few years about how we get out of this and get in a more positive direction?
Veronica Laizure: That’s a great question and you’ve touched on so many things that I think are really worth exploration. I think what is really scary is that the last 20 years of American politics has changed the game of politics. The way that candidates can attack each other, we cannot walk back from that kind of campaigning. I think that’s just what campaigning looks like now, unfortunately. The fact that presidential campaigns start a year and a half in advance. We used to not see presidential ads until maybe the spring before the election, and now we’re starting to see candidates announcing and beginning their fundraising a year and a half to two years in advance. Campaign season is much longer. And by the way, back in the day, in Lincoln’s time, candidates wouldn’t even campaign for themselves. You would get nominated at your convention, people would go out and advocate on your behalf. So the needle has moved and moved and moved. And so that needle has continued to move. It’s like social media, the way that politics is happening on social media. The way that debates are occurring not just on a stage with lights but also in the comment section of that very debate. The way that people are exchanging ideas and also hating on each other. The ad hominem attacks. I don’t know how we go back from this. A lot of this toxicity I think started during the Obama era with the rise of Tea Party politics, this quasi-populism in 2010. And that’s around the time the Sharia nonsense really took off, the ground zero mosque, Sharia law, all that stuff was 2010. And this indelible tying up of politics with morality, the only moral way to vote is the way that I vote. That has been such a winning strategy. If you are a good person you will vote for this candidate because this candidate is a better person than the other candidate. I don’t know how we go back from this. I miss the days when debates were boring, when a political debate was actually talking about the lockbox and taxes. It wasn’t ad hominem attacks and sound bites that they knew were going to be regurgitated on TikTok. So I think the bad news is that this wild swinging back and forth of the political pendulum, that’s unfortunately just what it’s going to be. The good news is that what I am seeing in Oklahoma, and I’m seeing this mirrored across the country, is a redefining of community. I think what saves us is not going to be national political parties. It’s not going to be the gigantic NGOs. Although of course institutions like CAIR have a huge role in creating this community, but it’s localized people who have something in common, which is I want to care for my neighbor whoever those neighbors may be, whether they look like me, worship like me, speak the same language as me, came from the same place as me. I want to care for those people. And it’s mutual aid networks. And I don’t mean just mutual aid as in dropping off groceries to your neighbor, although it’s certainly part of it. It’s the way that mutual aid has happened between families in Oklahoma and families in Gaza. That we are seeing across the distance of borders of geography and time and faith and language to say these are human beings with children who need my help. What I think we’re seeing now is a shifting in the definition of community building. And that is the lasting and sustainable change that I think will save us from the toxicity of politics. When we can get past the small minutiae of things that make us different and focus on what we all deserve, which is the rights as human beings, the right to live and worship freely, the right to decide what happens within your own family, within your own body, the right to take care of other people in the best way that you can without hindrance from the state. And so where I find inspiration is the fact that these redefined, re-imagined communities are changing the world. We have seen people on every continent respond to the crisis, the moral crisis in Gaza. And I think we will be paying for the mistakes in Gaza for generations. Not just the Gazans who are rebuilding their homes, but also the world who has watched an atrocity happen. And how we heal from that deep existential wound is by building community so that this never happens again.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: One of the positive things that you saw come out of it amid the horror was people who are not Palestinian, not Muslim, never been to the Middle East, but they have a very basic conscience. They could see kids being killed every day and they knew it was wrong. Even people who in the past or even still say crazy things about all sorts of communities. So when you say community and building, I also wonder if there’s room for people who have radically different political views to still come together on some basic things like we don’t want ICE agents marching through our streets killing American citizens. If we had some moral consistency with the right and the left, just basic parameters we all agree to, the temperature might come down a bit. The problem is that if it’s my side doing it, it’s okay. If it’s your side doing it, it’s not okay.
Veronica Laizure: I think you’ve made a great point, which is that community does cross political boundaries. If Marjorie Taylor Greene wants to see herself in community with me because we both agree that kids shouldn’t be murdered, of course. Let’s work on that together. I might fight you on other things, but at least on that basic human level, come on in. Take a seat at the table. We’re sorry that you’re late, but we will always have something for you to do here at this table in this family. And one of the things that’s been incredible in seeing the allyship that’s built around Gaza solidarity is exactly as you said, people who are not Muslim, who are not Arab, who are not Palestinian. In Oklahoma in particular, the LGBTQ community have never stopped rallying for Palestine. They have been out at the protests every single weekend. There were kaffiyehs at Pride, very proudly worn. And some of the largest organizations that put on Pride in Oklahoma actually lost funding because of their statements in solidarity with Palestine. And they said, “We don’t care about losing that funding. It’s the right thing to do.” And they never stopped their allyship. They’ve never stopped their advocacy. And then the second crossover on that point I just want to note is that even that community probably knows that Palestinians generally are very religious, very conservative, but that didn’t matter because at the end of the day we’re human beings, apartheid is wrong, occupation’s wrong, killing people is wrong. So just like you saw the entire Muslim community universally say the Pulse nightclub attack was wrong, that community stood up and said the same. And when LGBTQ folks and the Muslim community understand that the people who hate them also hate us, the people who are advancing anti-LGBTQ legislation in Oklahoma are the same ones who are advancing anti-Sharia laws, when we understand that the common enemy is the common problem, then we are in community together. Because community isn’t necessarily about the boundaries. You don’t have to agree on everything. You might fight each other on one policy, but you can still say on this policy: hate crimes are bad, genocide’s bad, discrimination in the workplace is bad. And then the other crossover that has arisen in the wake of Gaza solidarity is relationships with indigenous communities. Oklahoma has 39 federally recognized tribes and many more who are not federally recognized. And the connection between colonialism as it was practiced in the United States and colonialism as it’s currently being exercised in occupied Palestine. So to find that natural allyship in the indigenous community, at Gaza solidarity rallies you have drum circles led by indigenous elders. They’ve also had drag celebrations to raise money for Gaza solidarity. And that’s all happening in Oklahoma, in one of the reddest states where every county voted for Trump in both 2020 and 2024. We have these kinds of crossovers happening because that’s what community building looks like. People who come from all of these different places and don’t always agree with each other, but we are building and redefining family in the way that we care about each other. We care what happens to each other. We care when each other’s rights are threatened. I like to think of it like this: if you have siblings, you can be fighting with your sibling over anything from the most trivial to deep disagreements fundamental to who you are as a person. You can be arguing with your sibling all day. But if someone comes in and wants to attack my sister, oh no, now we’re a united front. Now we’re united. And we are not going to stop until that problem has been solved. And so I like to think of us as family members. We don’t have to look the same, believe the same, worship the same. But when someone comes in to attack my sibling, I am not going to sit by and let that happen. And I have the trust built up that if something happens to me, my siblings are also going to show up to fight for me.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: One of the things that troubled me about activism during the first Trump term to some extent is what I’d call “quid pro quo activism,” meaning that there was an expectation that okay, I’m going to go protest for your cause, now you got to show up for my cause and if you don’t, then you’re a bad person. Well, no, it’s if you think my cause is just, show up for me by all means. And if I think your cause is just, I’m going to show up for you. But if I disagree with your cause, don’t expect me to show up, but don’t be offended by it. It’s just I don’t agree with that particular cause. But if something happens to you that I think crosses the line, I’m going to be there for you. So I think if people had that willingness to have principle-based activism and stand up for each other with consistency, there are some things that you don’t want to happen to anyone. It’s wrong if it happens to you, to your neighbor, no matter who they are, what they are, how they dress, how they worship. But again, we like consistency.
Veronica Laizure: Yeah, and I think that’s a really good point about showing up for each other’s protests and sort of the battle of the protest. I would much rather have someone who says, “Unfortunately, I can’t be at your protest, but I will be there when you’re hungry to bring food. I will be there to help your community set up for an event that’s really important to you. I will be there when you just need somebody to talk to because the weight is heavy and the work never ends.” I would rather have an ally who shows allyship through their actions and their honesty and their consistency. And someone who says, “I can’t come to your protest for whatever reason, but when you’re not in the room, I will defend you. When someone slanders your community and says bad things about your organization, I’m gonna stick up for you even when you’re not there.” I want allies like that. I care less about the optics of who’s at the protest getting their selfies. I care about who’s fighting for me when I can’t be in the room. And I think that that’s all part and parcel of this redefining community. Community isn’t just who shows up to take a photo with you. It’s who helps you clean up when the event’s over. It’s who helped bring the food. And who said, “Oh, looks like we’re out of this supply. Let me just run down the road and I’ll get some more.” That’s community. That’s the real relationship.
Edward Ahmed Mitchell: So, Veronica, part of the reason that we wanted to have you on early in this episode life is because so many people work at CAIR who are of various faiths, various backgrounds, different religions, no religion, and an outsider might go, why are you working for a Muslim organization? And I think without answering the question, you’ve answered the question, which is that belief in the rights of your neighbors, solidarity and the fight against any sort of injustice against anyone. And so you really have embodied that in the work you’ve done for us in Oklahoma, now the work you’re doing at our national office, which is greatly appreciated. So Veronica, welcome to the national team officially. And we really hope that as the community engages with CAIR through the next year, through these very unsettled times, they’ll be seeing more of the great work that you’ve done in Oklahoma now happening at a national level, God willing. So thank you so much for joining us.
